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TeamMLMTheGame
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:19 am |
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I am part of several forums, and sometimes there are topics worth sharing across the board, because they provide value to everyone.
John M Fogg, recently shared some of his thoughts on belief, and I wanted to open it up here to those interested...
This is what his bright mind had to say...
For the sake of discussion, he defined "belief" as a habit of thought. Without focused attention or conscious awareness, a belief is what you think first and foremost.
So, is belief important or no? And, what makes it so?
Was (and is) Dr. Hill's (Think & Grow Rich) accurate (short-quoted and gender bias removed), What the mind believes the mind achieves?
...............................
Here are my thoughts, and I am interested in yours...
I love belief.
I have a tremendous respect for it.
Belief is one of the most amazing ideas, it is so very deeply rooted in all of us, it defines who we are, it defines where we have been, and ultimately it defines where we are going.
And...mysterioulsy enough, since it is largely based on experience, it can also change with the wind.
Wow...some of you may jump at me for saying that. You may think "My belief is rock solid, and it will never change!"
If you feel this, open to the thought, separate your mind from the word, and think about it.
If your belief is so strong in one thing, all it takes is a new profound life changing good thing to happen to make the belief stronger, or for the sake of conversation, let's say that a down right horrible thing happened, that could have a negative effect on your original belief.
These emotional events we call experiences always have an effect on our beliefs, whether it is subconscious or conscious.
The great thing about life is that WE create it, WE are in control. We create our thoughts, we create our beliefs, and we create our experience.
This is the cycle. It then repeats. From the newfound and recently created experience, we have an initial thought, then another belief, then another experience, mental or physical, its all an experience.
It all comes back to ourselves, and relating every experience to our own mission, our own purpose, and through that we will evolve and reach our mission and purpose.
So, is belief important? You better bet it is.
If thought is the initiator, "Belief" is the fulcrum of success.
Anders Gustavsson
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PMHayes
Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 04:12 am |
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TeamMLMTheGame wrote:
The great thing about life is that WE create it, WE are in control. We create our thoughts, we create our beliefs, and we create our experience.
I cannot agree with this premise. I think it's arogant and conceited. We cannot create life. there is only one who can do that. Let's examine the word create:
1. transitive verb make something: to bring something into existence
2. transitive verb give rise to something: to result in something or make something happen
3. transitive and intransitive verb produce inventions or art: to use imagination to invent things or produce works of art
We are endowed by God, our creator, with the ability to create in a finite manor. For example, we can create a work of art. We can write a poem or a song, or paint a picture, thus bringing a thing into esistance that did not previously exist. But all we are really doing is arranging or rearranging ideas, thoughts, images that were already there, interpreting them, if you will. We can engage in abstract thought, which is a form of creation, but even abstract concepts and thoughts are based upon things that are concrete, that already esxist in space and time.
In all of this we are merely working with material either substantive or abstract that already exists. We cannot create the atoms, the molecules necessary to bring one physical thing into existance. We can manipulate already existing atomic and subatomic particles, rearange them, etc. But we can no more bring one into existance than we can jump off a building and fly! Our mind is never completely blank or void, and there is nothing that is not that we can call into existance.
Life can only be created by God. How arogant to assume we can create life itself. Even in child birth, we are merely putting part a with part b to make part c. We are merely cooperating with nature, not creating it. We are not in control, not even a little.
Yes we can chose some of our thoughts, but not all. Some thoughts arise over which we have absolutely NO control. We cannot chose our emotions. We can try to control or suppress them, but we cannot chose them. We chose what to believe in, and yes, some of that is based upon experience, but not all. Belief is a funny thing. It is not always tied to experience or to rational thought. Faith is believing in the absence of concrete evidence. We believe in God, but we cannot see him, feel him, touch him, etc. We believe in ideals, right and wrong, moral concepts, etc. Not all of this is based upon experience.
yes, we can chose what to do with the intelligence, gifts and talents we were born with, and in that manor i suppose we can "create our life." We can decide how and where we want to live, and what we want to do with our life. But we cannot create life itself.
Our "control" is finite. We cannot control all of the things that happen to us, events or circumstances forced upon us by living in this world. We can control some of them, but not all. We cannot control whether we get sick, or, short of suicide, how and when we die. We create some of our experiences, but certainly not all of them. Sometimes "Stuff just happens."
I just have a difficult time with all of the "new age" Man is his own God beliefs that are so pervasive today. Ok, so i wax metaphysical, here, I can't help it.
Nuff Said,
Mitch
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CraigM
Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 04:26 pm |
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Hi Mitch,
I read your response with great interest. I too am not into all of this "new age" (crap). I know what my beliefs are and I know where they come from, develop, and prosper.
Discussing this issue, as posted originally, is like the age old question, "if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a noise?" What is all of that about?
Needless to say Mitch, you brought out some good points and this is a subject that can be discussed forever with no enlightening resolution.
JMF has a way of delving deeply into the conscious/subconscious. He does have a way of writing like no other that I've read and do enjoy reading his works. It's just sometimes he loses me in the process and when finished ask myself, what did he say?
You know what I mean.
____________________
Craig Mattice
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TeamMLMTheGame
Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 05:39 pm |
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Hi Mitch!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts...
Like the other gentelmen said, this topic can go down the rabbit hole forever, and it is not about agrreeing or disagreeing, the goal is to just open our minds, and invite new possibilities.
I say we are the creators, because often times without US our successes will not happen. It is a choice to wait and just beleive in devine order, I repect that choice, it is not for me, I choose to take part in co-creating life everyday. Yes...God, the creator, the universal power, he-man, (keeping it light here) have a large say as to what will happen, AND without the initial thought, the initial action, the initial reorganization of the pre existing atomic molecules by action of US in the first step of creation, nothing will happen...so we begin it or take a major part in it...we have that choice to do or not to do.
I have unlimited power, I believe we all do.
We are part of creation, it is not arrogant, it just is...we are here to create. What you create is purely up to you.
Thank you for creating this conversation.
Be well.
Anders Gustavsson
Last edited on Tue May 27th, 2008 05:40 pm by TeamMLMTheGame
____________________
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PMHayes
Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 05:55 pm |
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TeamMLMTheGame wrote: I have unlimited power, I believe we all do.
Anderson, i respectfully diagree. Can you speak an atom into existance? Can you command the waves of the ocean to stand still? Can you speak to a fig tree and command it to dry up and wither away? Can you call into being a anything of substance that did not exist prior to calling it into being. That my friend, is creation.
All we as mere humans can do is cooperate with the devine. We can manipulate matter. We can alter it's chemical and atomic, even subatomic structure. But we cannot create it. If you can do that, you are God.
I believe we can create our life in as much as we can chose direction, chose a belief system, chose actions or non-action. We are responsible for what we do with what we have, our talents, intelligence, our faith, etc. But we are finite. Finite cannot create something from nothing. You cannot cause one hair to grow on your head, or one by your powers as a human being, give life to inanimate objects. Only one who has infinite power, the power to speak "Let there be light," and light came into being, only that one has the power to create life from non-life.
We do not have unlimited power. We are powerful beings, in thought, will, moral and spiritual enilghtenment and understanding. We have been given the ability to interract with the devine, the infinite. But we are not infinite, nor are we devine. We are finite, flawed, and totally dependant upon the devine for our existance.
Ok, enough of Philosophy and Metaphysics.
Very Respectfully submitted,
Mitch
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TeamMLMTheGame
Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 06:11 pm |
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Hi.
We all have our beliefs, for me there are no rights or wrongs, I respect them and let them grow individually in any way each person wants.
It is my hope that people will attract what gives them personal power and repell like the plague anything that weakens them.
Like you say..nothing of lasting value in life happens by accident... chart your own course!
Have a great week!
Anders
____________________
Infinite Synergy, Creators of MLM The Game
"The Ultimate Network Marketing Training Experience"
http://www.mlmthegame.com
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PMHayes
Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 07:38 pm |
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No right or wrong, no absolutes, means no order, chaos, no standard. If that is the case, there is no basis for law, no basis for government, no basis for any belief system, as anything goes. Sounds a lot like what the serpent said to Eve, so very long ago.
Yes, absolutely i chart my own course. I decide what to do, when to do it, where to go, who to market to, where to invest my time and my energy. But that course has a foundational belief system and boudaries, as well as markers with which to guage progress. If you remove absolutes from your belief system, you have no system of reason or logic, therefore how can one measure ones progress?
Without absolutes there is no basis for reason.
Mitch
____________________
Nothing of lasting value in life happens by accident. Chart Your Own Course!
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jamo1616
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| Joined: | Tue May 27th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 08:06 pm |
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Mitch..
Is it possible you are taking this slightly our of context?
PMHayes wrote:
No right or wrong, no absolutes, means no order, chaos, no standard. If that is the case, there is no basis for law, no basis for government, no basis for any belief system, as anything goes. Sounds a lot like what the serpent said to Eve, so very long ago.
I believe what he meant was that there is not right or wrong when it comes to choosing our beliefs. One cannot determine what everyone else must believe. We can only do this for ourself. Not everyone beleves in Christianity - or the God you believe in. This does not mean their can't be order or basic standards.
The very foundation of our Democracy allows for differnt beliefs to occur, and for us to still have order - and, as you stated "respectfully disagree". Of course there must be established laws, rules, and societal norms in order to not have chaos. This goes without stating.
I think he was speaking in terms of personal empowerment and faith in one's self. There are many who start a business, and do not believe they can succeed. Henry Ford said, "Whether you think you can, or think you cannot, You are right". It's not about new age, it's about believing in yourself and you abilities.
Even the Bible teaches that. As well do many great religions and belief systems. Wasn't it Jesus who said: "Have I not said you are all Gods?" and that "God created man in the image of himself."
Of course we cannot create atoms out of nothing. I agree with this. However, we can design our own realtiy, and how we choose to view the world and our circumstances - which I think was the basis to the original post.
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TeamMLMTheGame
Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 08:09 pm |
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"No right or wrong, no absolutes, means no order, chaos, no standard. If that is the case, there is no basis for law, no basis for government, no basis for any belief system, as anything goes."
You are taking my statement out of context, ofcourse there have to be rights and wrongs in all that you mention...I am speaking only about "beliefs," we can all believe what we want, that is part of our freedom...and what we believe has a lot to do with what we will co-create.
This topic is about belief in regards to success, it is getting off topic.
Be well.
Anders Gustavsson
____________________
Infinite Synergy, Creators of MLM The Game
"The Ultimate Network Marketing Training Experience"
http://www.mlmthegame.com
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CraigM
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 02:49 pm |
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If anything at all we do have the power to determine our own lives via the course of actions we take in making our daily decisions.
How many times have we heard the story of a homeless bench bum become a millionaire three years later. When asked what happened he responds by saying when he was a bum he wasn't ready to become a millionaire yet. I believe I heard this story from a Tom Hopkins success seminar years back.
Many times it's not the major decisions that determines our life's course but the decisions we make on a daily basis that has the accumulative effect on our overall course in life. As an example, not brushing your teeth today is no biggy. But, if the behavior and seemingly small decision continues for a year or two the cumulative effect is gum disease, cavities, and possible loss of the teeth altogether. See my point here?
So, in this respect, is where I think Anders is coming from with this post. No contest about the laws of physics, nature, and our place in the universe. God did give all of us the power of choice that can and does determine our course in life. It's what we do with it that makes all the difference in the world.
Last edited on Wed May 28th, 2008 05:16 pm by CraigM
____________________
Craig Mattice
Life is NOT an audition!
http://www.aboutcraigmattice.com
My very BEST Business!
http://www.craigmatticebiz.com
See how I deliver happiness!
http://www.craigmattice.com
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TeamMLMTheGame
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 05:14 pm |
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Cheers...well said Craig.
Now I am going to go brush my teeth
____________________
Infinite Synergy, Creators of MLM The Game
"The Ultimate Network Marketing Training Experience"
http://www.mlmthegame.com
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