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FreedomFire
Administrator
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Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2005 06:22 am |
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Hi Ya'll,
Below is an article by my friend Robert Probst...captures exactly what I would say if I could be as articulate.  Rather than just regurgitating the same thing in different words... I thought I'd just share the article.
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I think perhaps the biggest mistake people in this industry make is aggressively marketing their business opportunity, but fail to market themselves. Now you may think that's a ridiculous statement, so let me explain. To quote Tom 'Big Al' Schreiter, "People do business with you because they know, like and trust you" Did you get that? People will get into a business with you because they know who you are, and because you are likeable to them, and because they trust you. They will not get into a business relationship with you because of your beautiful website and slick flash presentations. These are simply tools for you to share information. People will get into business with you because of you.
The better job that you do of marketing yourself, the more people you will attract to you, and the more opportunities you'll have to build relationships; potentially offering partnership with you in your network marketing business. Ok, how do you do that?
All the world is a stage, and nowhere is this truer than on the internet. If you contribute regularly to discussion forums, you have a great opportunity to build your credibility and market brand you to a worldwide audience. By being an active contributor on a discussion forum, this gives you the opportunity to show people your expertise, and build your credibility and trust. Let's get more specific now.
Let's say for example that you stumble across a good MLM (multi level marketing) discussion group like http://www.mlmsuccess.com and find what appears to be a person asking questions about a particular company or biz opp, your first inclination might be to post something powerful and spectacular about your own opportunity. This would be the worst possible thing you can do, because this individual doesn't know who you are or a thing about you. To him or her, you are merely intruding on an existing conversation by pitching your deal. However, what you could do is, post something in reply to the persons request that is related to their potential success or complementary in nature. A well thought out post in a public place will usually draw a great deal of attention, but on the other hand an "In Your Face" type of reply with such memorable phrases as "CHECK IT OUT" or "EARN MONEY WHILE YOU SLEEP" are laughable and will go totally unnoticed. This is a very common mistake that new network marketers make, and one of the leading causes of failure-- lack of results. It's much like fishing, where you have to be patient and use the correct bait.
One thing has to happen before you can showcase your credibility and expertise. that is you have to believe you are an expert in your own mind. This can be accomplished by reading books, hanging out with the leaders in your network marketing company and absorbing what they know. Follow by example. Duplicate the successful people in your life, not those who are in debt and have nothing but negative experiences to offer. If you want to learn how to become proficient at something, the worst thing you can do is associate with people who have failed at the same thing. (here's an example) Your brother in law joined a multi level marketing company, which sells soaps and household cleaning products, and after just a few months he became discouraged and quit. Obviously, he will have nothing good to say about his involvement in this industry. What can you possibly learn from him at this point? On the other hand, a friend of yours may have enjoyed tremendous results in a different company, and could be a great inspiration to you. This is the person you'll want to study and duplicate. It's kind of like the blind leading the blind, and too many people fall into that trap. I call these people "Dream Stealers" Avoid them like the plague.
Practice what they teach you, and before you know it you'll be a leader in this industry and people will flock to you asking you to teach them and possibly even ask to join you in business.
My business was built to a very large degree based on relationships that I formed on discussion forums and internet communities. Sometimes these relationships took weeks, or even months to develop to the point that the person raises their hand and says "Hey, show me what ya got" When that happens, you know you have arrived and your prospecting takes on a whole new attitude.
When posting a message to a forum or discussion group, make sure to use your real name and create a hyperlink e-mail address. Most bulletin boards have this feature built in, so use it whenever possible. Do NOT create links to your business opportunity!! You may think this to be strange, but believe me, the more you market you, and the less you market your opportunity the better. They'll find out in due time what you have to offer, but the secret of internet recruiting lies in getting them to ask YOU questions, not you telling them about what you have for them. Call it reverse psychology if you will, but it works.
There, now you have my secret.
Below is a list of some popular discussion forums that have proven to be good breeding grounds for relationships. Use them responsibly.
http://mlm.com
http://mlmforums.com
http://www.talkbiz.com/cgi-bin/mlm.cgi
http://www.onlinemlm.com/gforum/gforum.cgi
For the experienced and those not faint of heart:
http://www.bio-byte.com/amos/10033.html
by Robert Probst
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Please take these words to heart. You will see a difference if you do.
God Bless,
Michael
Last edited on Mon Dec 19th, 2005 08:56 pm by FreedomFire
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vern
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jul 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
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Posted: Sat Aug 19th, 2006 08:33 am |
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Today, there is definitely more and more new marketers coming aboard and repeating the same old mistakes until after sometime of failures and trials then they will realise their mistakes in doing such blatant advertising in their posts. This is common.
I believe that the reason is that they just want to join as much forums as possible and post whatever catch lines or advertising phrases that they can about their newfound business.
For this, they will unconsciously 'hurt' their own image in the long run and people will perceive them as a person who is more of a con-artist than anything else. Like what Robert says you need to market yourself, so building a lasting good impression on everyone is a good thing.
Regards,
Vern How
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GoodOldBB
Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 19th, 2006 11:34 pm |
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Hi Michael,
An excellent post.
I understand the excitement one has when they have just joined the "end-all" opportunity and the desire to spread the word about it. I have made that mistake.
However, in my experience, the relationships that have worked the best and lasted the longest were built on respect and trust.
I hope we all take this to heart.
GoodOldBB
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dwarneke
Banned
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 07:39 pm |
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Hi FreedomFire,
I like the Captain America picture on your post. He was my favorite as a kid and I still have a Captain American comic collection.
I appreciate your post because I really am sick and tired of receiving letters in the mail and links to web sites that promise the moon. They always claim you can get rich with very little effort. Yea, right. Good luck with that. Since I started providing my prospects with free reports and articles on effective marketing strategies and realistic approaches to building a business, I have experienced much greater success.
It really is much more effective to build a relationship with your customers than it is to keep trying to 'sell' them. It is also much more enjoyable. I like to think I am a nice guy, but my motives are purely selfish. I know that by helping my customers or members of my business program it will put more money in my pocket. The more successful they are the more money I make. It's really that simple.
So, I encourage everyone to start out by providing your customers and potential members with valuable information. Help them obtain the knowledge they need to be successful. Then they will gladly follow you anywhere.
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MPieper
Moderator
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Posted: Mon Sep 4th, 2006 06:16 am |
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Hi Michael,
I wanted to bump this post to the top of the board again because I think it's a very important concept. Most people out there will not really HEAR (or READ) what you have to say unless you're able to establish a connection through a medium that can be intensely impersonal. The Internet opens a world of possibilities, but it also causes a lot of disconnect with people. Bricks and Mortar businesses are all about personal relationships and I'm not quite sure how this concept was lost online... I, for one, have never purchased a product or joined a business with someone I didn't already trust and have repor with. I expect nothing less from my prospects, and you should expect nothing less from yours.
Quit marketing your mass-produced company adds and make it personal! Make your advertising unique and make it about you and your story. Market yourself first and your company/product last. See what happens. Attraction marketing...quite the concept...
Yours in greater success,
Merideth
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vern
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jul 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
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Posted: Mon Sep 4th, 2006 09:16 am |
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Hi Merideth,
You revealed the main reasons why most internet businesses fail today!~ the more a person can get his prospects to trust him the faster he is able to build and nuture his list.
If there is a way to get subscribers is not to push them to opt in it is to entice them and make sure that they get what they want. Then continue to fill that void again and again. Overtime, its sure that you will earn the trust of the subcribers themselves.
Regards,
Vern How
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Need Help Getting Traffic For Your Business?
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=> http://www.VernHow.com
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dadathome
Banned
| Joined: | Sun Aug 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | New Zealand |
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Posted: Tue Sep 5th, 2006 05:22 am |
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You revealed the main reasons why most Internet businesses fail today!~ the more a person can get his prospects to trust him the faster he is able to build and nurture his list.
If there is a way to get subscribers is not to push them to opt in it is to entice them and make sure that they get what they want. Then continue to fill that void again and again. Overtime, its sure that you will earn the trust of the subscribers themselves.
Regards,
Vern How
Hi Vern, for once someone has hit it on the head! It's always about people, even more so online when people can't 'eye ball' you and make a face to face judgment. From that point it's only through repeated exposure to you and learning to trust you that a business relationship can be built. This takes time!
If people would simply offer themselves, give value and build a relationship, instead of rushing to the 'Close' they would get vastly improved results.
One of the things my students are finding in their online marketing ( call it prospecting if you will ) is that by concentrating on building relationships, and through it developing a huge 'List' of people who trust you, sets very fertile ground for making *any* offer to them down the track.
Cheers.
[code]Last edited on Tue Sep 5th, 2006 05:24 am by dadathome
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vern
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jul 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
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Posted: Wed Sep 6th, 2006 09:43 am |
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Aww, shucks Allan... thanks.
I'm just being honest about what I have gone through. Most of the time people abuse this trust and turn it into a profit machine. Well, thats why some 'guru's actually fall after sometime because their subscribers get a funny feeling that now all that newsletter publisher guy is giving is ads ads and more ads!
Can't blame them... although once word speaks. Being selfless. I found friends this way and just being selfless and honest is the key to success.
Why? simply because people are attracted to your attitude.
people buy people.
Regards,
Vern How
____________________
Vern How Is An Established Affiliate Marketer
Need Help Getting Traffic For Your Business?
"Click Here" To Get The Latest Tips.
=> http://www.VernHow.com
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greazy
Member
| Joined: | Mon Sep 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Latty, Ohio USA |
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Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 10:37 pm |
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| Alot of what you are saying about marketing yourself first goes along way. I opened a new website recently. I was very worried about getting taken advantage of so I flat out asked the web person if he was a honest man or not at first he hestitated. I guess I caught him off guard but he gave me an honest and good answer so I did business with him. I am tried of all the lies and hyping going on about home businesses and mlm I was starting to think everyone out here is a con or liar. I have met some good honest people to do business with on line and hope to meet others. Thanks for letting me vent. Earl
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ccrider
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 11:59 pm |
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There's a lot of good information in this entire thread. I'm new to this forum and just getting back to forums again after staying away for the reasons that have been discussed here and in other threads. I left the forums because of all the blatant violations and some of the very rude participants in some former forums (which I won't name).
It's hard sometimes to know who you can trust, isn't it? I was interviewed by an agent from the FBI because of an investigation they had going against a program I was in years ago. During the interview, I made my position clear and that position was that I did not believe the owner of the business was doing anything wrong. I also stressed the fact that they obviously didn't have any proof after all these months or they would have charges against him. Prior to the investigation, I knew I could call him any time and talk. They put a gag order on him so we lost contact. The reason I've included this here is to show you my point of view regarding trustworthy individuals. I told this agent I did not trust the FBI because they were shutting down the program because it was too beneficial and I had more trust in the owner who had a prior criminal history!
The points that you have made here are obvious. Most marketers (or marketers to be) love their internet businesses because they are going to make all this money, they don't have to do anything and they don't have to interact with anyone. Bingo, Formula for Failure.
I'm glad I found this because I just wasn't finding that much discussion here.
ccrider 
(Stephen Sampson) (see, I read this!)
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MPieper
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Sep 12th, 2006 03:26 am |
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Hi Steven,
That's a very interesting post, and while I'm sorry you had to go through an FBI investigation, it seems like you took a lot away from the experience. You're right...it's all about PEOPLE and TRUST...the business is rather secondary in my opinion. There are certain types of people who will do so well in this industry, and its because they focus on relationship building, not pushing X Y or Z opportunity down as many throats as possible. You made a connection with an individual and believed in what he was doing. Would you join him in another business?
There are a very select few people who I've met in this industry that I would follow into ANY new business, just because they put their name behind it. THAT's what everyone must strive to achieve here... As I see it, it's the only way to develop true and lasting success for you AND your team.
Yours in greater success,
Merideth
____________________
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Learn How You Can Convert 25 New Leads Each Week Like Me
The Wealth Theory
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ccrider
Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 13th, 2006 12:09 am |
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MPieper wrote: Hi Steven,
That's a very interesting post, and while I'm sorry you had to go through an FBI investigation, it seems like you took a lot away from the experience. You're right...it's all about PEOPLE and TRUST...the business is rather secondary in my opinion. There are certain types of people who will do so well in this industry, and its because they focus on relationship building, not pushing X Y or Z opportunity down as many throats as possible. You made a connection with an individual and believed in what he was doing. Would you join him in another business?
There are a very select few people who I've met in this industry that I would follow into ANY new business, just because they put their name behind it. THAT's what everyone must strive to achieve here... As I see it, it's the only way to develop true and lasting success for you AND your team.
Yours in greater success,
Merideth
Merideth,
I talked with several other people that were also interviewed by the FBI in this matter. Most of us were appalled that they would take the position that they did and we expressed it that way. We defended this individual and stated that they (the FBI and SEC) were headhunting to keep the average person in their place. I even gave the agent an example of another business that I was in that got shut down illegally and I will quote part of the conversation between the owner of that business and an investigating agent:
Agent: "We never saw books kept this clean."
Owner: "So we can open our business up again."
Agent: "No, we can't allow the American people to have this kind of power!"
Doesn't that make you sick?
You asked if I would work with the owner of the other business again. Let me put it this way. "If we were in a war and I had a choice of following this man or an FBI agent, I would not even question following this man."
Stephen Sampson (ccrider)
____________________
Learn how to market any business and become
pro-active for the Environment.
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http://marketing-environmental-action-networ.blogspot.com/
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FreedomFire
Administrator
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Posted: Sat Sep 30th, 2006 09:25 pm |
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My take is this:
First, it's obvious that you shouldn't "advertise" IN the body of a post. This includes not only blatant recruiting, using personal links, etc. ....but also subtle soliciting (which a few in this Forum attempt). I would think everyone would agree with that. And of course our Forum rules are aligned with this in mind.
Participating in a discussion thread should focus on the thread theme, offer useful information and insights, add to the body of knowledge within the thread, and help move the dialogue along.
You're sharing your ideas and yourself. Not the place to "pitch" your deal or yourself.
During this process folks are learning about what is said (the info)and who said it (the person).
How you present yourself during that effort says alot about "you" to those reading the thread.
To paraphrase an old saying..."folks don't care until they know you care".
As for the sig box/line...I believe Robert is saying don't use blatant links to your bizop recruiting website. Some Forum members use direct links to their bizop "hype" websites. Some use links to a particular product/service. Some use links to a personal website (i.e. family pictures, etc. with or without biz links in it), and some use a link to something like the Greatest Networker "who I am" website. The later probably is more what Robert is talking about "should" be done..
Personally, my sig's are mostly product/service oriented. Ya'll know I'm more of a product kind of guy anyway. So this method fits me better.
I believe you do what best fits you. As long as it isn't linking to "in your face" recruiting content there's lots of leeway (in my mind) how to present yourself.
Just don't give away the farm...or hit the mule over the head with a 2X4.
Since I mostly use product/service links myself, I don't throw bizop in your face. If someone is curious about more...they'll ask. And that is what I think Robert is saying. Create a situation where they'll "ask".
It's like dating. A little mystery breeds curiousity and spice. If interest is there you'll get another "date" just from someone wanting to know more about you.
That makes for stronger relationships in the long run.
God Bless,
Michael
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msmelanie
Member
| Joined: | Mon Sep 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
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Posted: Sun Oct 1st, 2006 03:52 am |
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Over the last 2 years, I have gotten alot of hits to my sites and leads for my businesses from my sig files. I've been very careful not to spam boards- But when I first got started, I didnt even know that it was the wrong thing to do! I found every forum remotely relating to my business and put my 'free ad' up there! I think alot of newbies do this...not even knowing the purpose of a sig file.
For years I knew that - 'people dont join your company, they join you'.
I have always worked my business online, and the impersonal nature of company websites and autoresponders can be a hinderance to success.
Not too long ago I compiled an ebook and began giving that to leads as an incentive to fill out my form-
Recently I developed my content website- with my smiling face on it.
You'd better believe that business is picking up! People see me, and know I am a real person- and feel they can relate to my story. I'm just a mom who wanted to support her family- so I learned the skills necessary to succeed.
My suggestion- at the very least, personalize the messages that go out to your prospects-
there is nothing worse than canned ad copy!
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topcareercoach
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2006 07:19 am |
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Hi Michael
Great post as usual. I regularly attend a networking breakfast for local business people and they are finding exactly what we are with our MLM/internet businesses with their offline businesses..
Their business is coming from people that they have taken the trouble to build relationships with over the past months. One guy I spoke to told me that 85% of his business comes from referrals which originate from the 30(!) networking groups he is a member of.
That's a lot of breakfasts but good business!
Andy.
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m2cmentor
Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 13th, 2006 06:01 pm |
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| This is really good stuff! I will say it really is a learning process and there is so much to it.
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namia
Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 21st, 2007 07:55 pm |
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Thanks for this great article Michael,
Great words of wisdom that I have tried to live by from the start. It is interesting how this principle applies to our lives in so many ways. If you don't develop a friendship with a level of trust, you don't have any right to give any kind of advice to anyone. It wouldn't do any good anyway unless they look to you as someone who has something to offer in that area.
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cjbart
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 08:35 am |
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Wow,
I am excited. Been sleeping too long. Even see Meredith here.
I hope everyone appreciates the Wisdom from that Dynamo from Korea.
I was consulting with a client today and they kept mentioning and fretting over "whose" program to promote and when. What to lead with etc.
We put the brakes on a starated back to square one.
We don't market anyone but ourseleves.
Our Business (Marketing) is People and we offer Tools, Systems and Products that allow them to realize Their Dreams.
But they need to know where to get these pearls of Wisdom.
It is real easy Off-line (which is where the real money is anyway) because people can see you Walking up to them, read your bulletins, open their mail, Listen to you on the local media, see you in Church, see you volunteering your Time to help build the Community. Or sitting on your front Porch, walking the Dog and enjoying all the wonderful experiences of living in a community.
You have Given of Yourself and they are Attracted to you, because all Voids need to Filled in the Universla Law of nature.
On this new fangled Internet thing, the same principles apply if you want Success.
Stop Pitching, stop chasing money, give of yourself, ESTABLISH RELATIONSHIPS.
Learn to communicate from the heart and not the wallet. The Heart is Huge and can hold more than any Wallet ever made.
If any one would like a nice 21 page report we call Your Emotional IQ and how it realtes to Marketing, PM me with your physical address and we will mail it right out along qwith some other Goodies. Let me know what kind of popcorn you like also. and
Last edited on Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 08:36 am by cjbart
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jschuman
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 12:53 pm |
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In marketing this is know as branding. The long term importance of branding yourself as an expert in your industry can not be overstated. On the internet, whether you are in affiliate marketing or network marketing, branding becomes even more important because it is harder to create a relationship than it is in person.
This is why using an autoresponder for lead capture and follow-up works. It does for you over a period of time, what you could never do to personally to thousands of people at a time.
But when you are following up offer an educational type of message as opposed to a sales message that justs promotes your program. This is the smart way to build relationships and brand yourself at the same time.
Look at Chris Tinney. Many of us come to his forum and some day will do business with him. (if you are not already)....
He has never ever personally contacted me yet I know him as an expert in the mlm industry. If he was to contact me I would listen to what he has to say because he has credibility and has branded himself as an expert in network marketing and I would want to hear what he has to say.
Last edited on Wed Jan 24th, 2007 12:55 pm by jschuman
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streamliner
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | New York USA |
| Posts: | 58 |
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 02:46 pm |
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Bravo Jeff! I think that you've just hit the nail on the head!
Branding is crutial!
People need to be able to trust what you say and what you do. Providing people with insight as to where you've been and what you've gone through to get there does a lot for your branding. People need to see you as a person with integrity. A person who contributes to the benefit of all people and as a likable person.
We can even take it a step further by making it clear that a person should be aware of what they are branding themselves as. If a person is serious about the branding process....and they should be, they need to decide what they want to be branded as. They can choose to be branded as a recruiter, retailer, wholesaler, presenter, trainer....the list goes on and on.
I believe that if you give one area focus...you can do it in a relatively short period of time if your content is beneficial in that area. I'm not saying that you can't brand yourself in more than one area...you can. But, just like people who we see who try to build more than one deal...their efforts become somewhat diluted and less focused.
HC
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