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Colin Meunier
Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 14th, 2007 04:54 pm |
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| I guess it also depends on what you would call an outragous claim too. Could all be reletive
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northendnorman
Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 14th, 2007 08:57 pm |
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I think you hit the nail on the head about doing research, however, not all scams are easily detected even then. When one is looking(somteimes desperately) for a way out of their situation, they are likely to be trusting and easy marks for scammers. For me, I have to be willing to wait and work rather than going for the quick fix. This is the weakness that they exploit. It may mean sticking out an unpleasant situation a bit longer, but the pay-off is worth it.
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wondermommy
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Posted: Thu Jun 14th, 2007 10:09 pm |
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northendnorman wrote: I think you hit the nail on the head about doing research, however, not all scams are easily detected even then. When one is looking(somteimes desperately) for a way out of their situation, they are likely to be trusting and easy marks for scammers. For me, I have to be willing to wait and work rather than going for the quick fix. This is the weakness that they exploit. It may mean sticking out an unpleasant situation a bit longer, but the pay-off is worth it.
I completely agree... when in life does the quick-fix ever really work out  ?
In regards to the post above the one I'm quoting, I don't think that the meaning of "outrageuos claims" is that relative.
Outrageous: going beyond all standards of what is right or decent
My number 1 tip is still to be VERY cautious and skeptical with outrageuos claims.
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Debbi_Bressler
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Posted: Fri Jun 15th, 2007 04:46 pm |
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In addition to typing "scam" with the company's name, research can be done at
sites like complaint.com and ripoffreport.com, the attorney general's office in the state in which the company is headquartered, BBB, etc.
But, there's an even simpler test.
The SMELL test.
If you take the opportunity out of the equation for just a moment, does the business
model make sense?
Are the products competitively priced?
How much competition is there?
What resources are available to market the business?
Is the target market easily defined?
How easy (and cost effectively) is it to reach this market?
If you honestly can't see yourself using - or recommending - the products or services
if you didn't make money for doing so, investigate further.
Even if you want to concentrate on building an empire, your company's products and
services provide the foundation for a REAL growing business. Many people will decide
they don't want to build a business after all. But if they find true value in your
products they - and YOUR volume - will stay.
My guess is most of the scams that have been shut down over the years would
never have passed the Smell Test in the first place.
Debbi Bressler
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Melvin The Alcoholic Goodrum
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 15th, 2007 07:34 pm |
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Debbi_Bressler wrote: In addition to typing "scam" with the company's name, research can be done at
sites like complaint.com and ripoffreport.com, the attorney general's office in the state in which the company is headquartered, BBB, etc.
But, there's an even simpler test.
The SMELL test.
If you take the opportunity out of the equation for just a moment, does the business
model make sense?
Are the products competitively priced?
How much competition is there?
What resources are available to market the business?
Is the target market easily defined?
How easy (and cost effectively) is it to reach this market?
If you honestly can't see yourself using - or recommending - the products or services
if you didn't make money for doing so, investigate further.
Even if you want to concentrate on building an empire, your company's products and
services provide the foundation for a REAL growing business. Many people will decide
they don't want to build a business after all. But if they find true value in your
products they - and YOUR volume - will stay.
My guess is most of the scams that have been shut down over the years would
never have passed the Smell Test in the first place.
Debbi Bressler I have to disagree with using ripoffreport.com and complaint.com. Those websites allow open bias without any verification of information plus they basically accept any complaint on any business regardless of truth or not. The Better Business Bureau is somewhat ok however lots of scam companies usually buy memberships with the BBB to look legit. The best research is to get unbias information from neutral party sources.
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Debbi_Bressler
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Posted: Fri Jun 15th, 2007 09:18 pm |
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Hi Melvin,
I understand your point but we'll have to agree to disagree.
None of the sites (ripoffreport, complaint.com, scam.com, even BBB to some degree)
prohibit anyone from filing a complaint. However, if I saw multiple complaints against
one company or person, it would simply raise a flag indicating I needed to do more
detailed research. It should NEVER be a be all or end all in itself.
ie. if I researched Company 1 and it had no negative comments at any site,
while Company 2 had 87 complaints from completely different people, I would
definitely take that into consideration. In addition, the nature of the comments can
often separate out the whiners and complainers vs. those who do have legitimate
concerns.
"The best research is to get unbias information from neutral party sources". While
this is great to have, it is often difficult to attain if a company is privately held. A
fallback method is to gather as much as you can from as many sources as possible
and see if there are any patterns.
Thanks for your comments.
Debbi Bressler
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TonyRush3
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Posted: Fri Jun 15th, 2007 09:19 pm |
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type the url of the company along with the words "scam" , "fraud", "false" , etc. in a search engine and read anything that comes up. Do the same with the companies name, scroll down to the bottom of the page to see if there is a parent company. Wondermommy, this is probably the LEAST effective way to perform due diligence on any company. Simply because -- while the Internet is a great tool -- it's also a place where anyone with $20/month for internet access can make all kinds of claims and allegations without any recourse at all.
Type in "Sears scam" or "AT&T scam" and you'll find a bunch of whiners and complainers who think that those companies are scams, too. But they're not.
In other words, there is no shortage of people who take ZERO responsibilty for their own situation who will happily jump on the internet and write pages and pages of nonsense about how it's a company's fault that they can't make their car payment, can't pay their bills, etc.
If you want to do some real due diligence, contact organizations like the Attorney General and find out if there are any pending suits with the company and what the nature of the complaint is. Contact Dun and Bradstreet and find out if the company is paying its bills. If the company is publicly traded, go to Yahoo Financial and pull up the reports on how the company is operating.
Due diligence isn't hard. It's just a matter of understanding a few basics about what IS and IS NOT a legitimate company and then checking to make sure a company is healthy.
Tony Rush
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workonyourfortune
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 15th, 2007 11:45 pm |
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Hi Wondermommy,
I think one of the best things someone thinking of joining any company can do is to test out their customer service...do they answer your emails, do they pick up the phone or return your calls? This will give you a good idea to how genuine they are... and how much support they can offer you by joining their team.
Some great advice from Tony,
Ciao!
Tanya
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workonyourfortune
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 15th, 2007 11:50 pm |
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Did anyone mention http://www.matrixwatch.com/?
Came across it on another forum recently about the same subject...looks pretty good in terms of what scams to steer clear of....
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JanetN
Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 06:36 pm |
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Typing scam in a search will bring up alot of complaints from people who failed because they didn't understand what network marketing is about. It's easier to yell scam then admit they failed because they expected to get rich without putting in any work.
Use common sense when wading through the results. You can also google the company's owners and management team. Due diligence isn't researching for twenty minutes. It's taking your time and being thorough.
Here's an important question to ask yourself "Would you spend the money if a business opportunity wasn't involved." If the answer is no how are you going to get any customers?
Also, does the company stress recruiting or retailing. Companies should be making their money from retailing product. Does the compensation plan pay the average part-timer or just the "top dogs".
Who ever you're talking to about the company if they can't answer your questions they should be able to find the answers for you or point you in the right direction and be happy to help. In the end research and use common sense.
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Melvin The Alcoholic Goodrum
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2007 05:05 pm |
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Thanks, Tony. I know we have different ideals but you hit that on the nail.
The internet now allows anyone to go and make a complaint without any scrutiny whatsoever.
And Debbie, I especially hate Rip-Off Report because there's a lot of bullcrap up there which is completely untrue and fraudulant. Remember, Complaint.com and ripoffreport.com are privately owned companies, unregulated, and their revenue is made on advertising and the sell of their Ripoff books.
Yes, the best thing is to contact the Attorney General and check for lawsuits and check Dun and Bradstreet if the company is publicity traded. Any company that is publicly traded essentially has its books open to anyone, that's the true smell and kick the tires test
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BriBeyer
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2007 10:12 pm |
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Hello,
Scams can be a real problem for people out there looking to get involved with a legitimate online business. I have found in my search to to work from home that the only real way to be "scammed" is to be out a whole bunch of money. So, to avoid being "scammed", I simply never looked in to a business that required large money investments up front. The legitimate businesses out there don't require lots of up front money anyway - so that's one basic rule I would follow.
The other goes along with the whole research thing. There can be so much information that you learn about a company that it can be difficult to sort through what's you really need to know. I always like to look for how long the company has been around. A new start up company may not necesarily be a scam, but it can be difficult to know for sure without a long track record. I recommend staing safe with companies that have been around a while and have really established themselves.
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ytkswy
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Posted: Tue Jun 19th, 2007 03:35 pm |
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I tend to look at it from a commercial point of view.
1. the acid test is that if I join, would i be making most of my money by referring people or by referring products
2. is the product really worth the money as in the monthly subscription fees
3. if you are the company, does it makes commercial sense to give out that sort of money as commission, would it still be a viable company.
As a general rule, I do not like those with upfront membership fees, also for those with high monthly fees. This is especially true for newbie as the "burn rate" of being in business would be too high for them to sustain especially in the initial months. I wrote an article on this in my blog and in ezine.
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Jack Bastide
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Posted: Thu Jun 21st, 2007 04:06 pm |
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Yes anybody can call something a scam so you have to weigh everything with a grain of salt
however certain companies have a history of complaints, and this is bad for the industry
Things like Gifting programs and deals like Global Prosperity, Delfin, PAS etc may last for years but sooner or later they went down with some participants being indicted
these kind of deals will always go down eventually but not before taking a bunch of people down with them
let the buyer beware
where there is smoke ,, there is fire
Jack
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JFulker
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 04:20 am |
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Do your homework on the business, see if they have a street address on their website with a phone number. If don't list that, probably better to stay away.
Also check them with the Better Business Bureau http://www.bbb.org/ Even if they don't have a perfect record, make sure they have resolved most disputes. If they have, then there shouldn't be any huge problems.
Beyond that, make sure the business is for you and your personality. For example, if you hate selling to friends and family, stay away from businesses that encourage ONLY that (believe me, they still exist). If you are TRULY excited about the opportunity, then join. If you have doubts or feel hesitation because of the pricetag on the business or because of complaints about the products, stay away from the business.
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biz247
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 08:38 am |
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I been burned some companies that too good to be true...generally,it's not.If you looking for legit company check the history with BBB.Go to their site to if they got any complaints before you make a decision.
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ms450
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 09:30 pm |
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| Great Post Hope I have read this sooner. It's true never get too lazy doing research and background check on the company. Had to learn this the hard way.
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twnuck
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| Joined: | Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 |
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 01:24 am |
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I tend to focus on the product and ask myself two questions:
1. Is it something that I believe has value to a mass of people?
2. Is it something I would buy myself?
If I can't give it an affirmitive "yes" then I stop right there and move on. Other than that, I tend to do my own research through the net and pay attention in forums. That's where I find the best information! Specifically there will always be a few folks that find ANY business to be a scam because they just had a bad experience - but the preponderance should be saying positive things or else it's probably a major warning sign.
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Melvin The Alcoholic Goodrum
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 04:21 pm |
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ytkswy wrote: I tend to look at it from a commercial point of view.
1. the acid test is that if I join, would i be making most of my money by referring people or by referring products
2. is the product really worth the money as in the monthly subscription fees
3. if you are the company, does it makes commercial sense to give out that sort of money as commission, would it still be a viable company.
As a general rule, I do not like those with upfront membership fees, also for those with high monthly fees. This is especially true for newbie as the "burn rate" of being in business would be too high for them to sustain especially in the initial months. I wrote an article on this in my blog and in ezine.
I'm not sure what you mean by upfront membership fees but I can understand high monthly fees. Most MLM companies have an autoship program and while some companies require that you be on one while others don't.
As far as upfront membership fees. You should expect to pay an associate membership for truly legit MLM organizations as the money provides for books, training material, and etc. However this should be a one-time fee. Watch out for companies that do frontloading or mandatory auto-ships and etc. A lot of these nutritional MLM companies usually makes their salesmans their best customers.
I myself am involved in 3 MLM companies and run a nutritional companies because I understand that not every company is suited for every person. However my overhead is under 200 dollars a month as everything is all tied in. I have live operators taking messages for me 24 hours a day thanks to outsourcing to India for under 50 bucks a month and with the internet advent, all I really have to do is to train a few to do the same thing and it frees up a lot of my time.
You have to look at the ultimate picture, there is no one MLM for everyone.
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Melvin The Alcoholic Goodrum
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 9th, 2007 05:39 pm |
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I thought it had potential and the site was very slick and appealing. However when you pay 50 cents for selling a track and 50 dollars for recruiting 2 agents, the FTC is going to turn heads
On June 10, 2007, it was reported that the Federal Trade Commission filed a lawsuit on June 5, 2007 against specific BurnLounge participants and their involvement with BurnLounge's alleged pyramid scheme. One person named in the lawsuit is former University of South Carolina football star Rob DeBoer, who says that he recruited about 45 other people to open their own BurnLounge sites. Those recruited would then pay a commission on their sales to DeBoer. DeBoer stated that he made almost US$300,000 from BurnLounge. The lawsuit is the result of a year-long investigation into BurnLounge by the state of South Carolina.[16] Others named in the lawsuit include BurnLounge CEO Alex Arnold, and two Texas men who promoted BurnLounge similarly to DeBoer. The FTC's claim is that BurnLounge is a pyramid scheme because the company pays more money for recruiting new store owners than for selling music. According to the lawsuit, BurnLounge operators earned bonuses of up to US$50 for recruiting two new members and selling two albums per month, but only pays US$0.50 per album sold.[citation needed]
As a result of the FTC investigation Alex Arnold is no longer CEO.
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