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nstaley
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 01:36 am |
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So I get a call from my friend, We haven't spoken in a little while, we're chatting about this and that, as you do. It WAS good, then I say I've started doing this new thing, it's going really well, In just 4 wks I've got 168 signups. I'm really excited about it!
What's that then?
Did I not send you the link?
Oh THAT! huh yeah I deleted it. It's pyramid selling, It's Illegal.
Oh no no, I say NOT PYRAMID selling, it's mlm, Multi Level Marketing / Network Marketing.
Oh is THAT what they are calling it NOW, They are trying to get away with renaming it. It's all the same it's Pyramid Selling, you try and rope your friends and family in and then they all end up out of pocket.
I ended up ranting for about ten minutes about the differences between pyramid Selling and mlm/networking. In the end we hung up, it was a bit odd. - Funny thing was I wasn't even trying to interest him in it, Just wanted to let him know what I have been up to of late.
Some people are soooo critical and defensive when it comes down to it. Does any one else get this?
It's all good though because it spurs me on to make it happen, There's NO WAY i'm gonna stop, it's all too good. I'll come and pick him up, when I'm got my private jet from my pyramid selling, or whatever you wanna call it. lolLast edited on Mon Aug 13th, 2007 01:37 am by nstaley
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mlmblonde
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 02:38 am |
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If you're going to be in this business one lesson to learn is NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL, or with someone that is clueless. Your friends and family simply are the worst people to talk to.
Network marketing certainly is NOT a Pyramd. Corporate America, our US Government and things like that are pyramids, with one leader or ruler over all. Actually if you grew a network marketing company and studied where your volume fell, you'd find MLM is more like a DIAMOND Shape.
Just move on, don't try to argue or convince.
Di
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nstaley
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 08:56 am |
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Thanks Di,
You've raised some key points.
I hadn't thought of the comparison of the corporate world and governments being pyramids, but they soooo are!
+ a diamond! I haven't heard this, I've heard of an upside down triangle from Don Faillia's book and of course the dodecahedron in The Simpsons. lol
Not too sure what you mean about studying where my volume fell, I'm sure it makes sense though.
Why it has to be related to any shape is beyond me, no one relates shapes to other businesses.
Next time someone disses it - saying it's a pyramid, I'll say well it's better than your circle, you just keep going round and round earning pretty much the same, doing the same old thing.
Hmm I like that; a circle. Neverending work round & round & round & round. huh.
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pplprincess
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 06:40 pm |
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I am deffinitely going to use the circle thing. That was A+ material.
Round and round we go... love it.
I'll stick with my MLM over someone elses JOB anyday. =)
Liz
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keefe2k28
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| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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For some people, this is the way to go. I have met a few people over the years that swear by it. I know a few people who make over $100k a year working their multi level marketing program. The unfortunate part about it is that they were the only one making money. No one on their team was duplicating the efforts they were doing. Weather they were selling vitamins, travel, a gas saver product, lotions, potions, pills, candles or juice beverage products, I have tried it all and it was a difficult task for me. Once I ran out of my friends and family to bug about my new business, once I had two or three home parties, I ran out of leads, so I started buying leads in hopes to try to convert some people into my business. That is so much harder than it sounds. Sure I made sales, but by the time I was getting to the next profit level, the people who I brought in 2-3 months ago were dropping like flies. This is why I could never make it to the next big payout level of the commission plan. For some reason, I would always fall short of the next bonus payout or car bonus. Usually, I would fall short of personal volume or group volume or I would have enough on my left side, but not enough on my right side, so I would miss out on the big payouts, month after month.
This got to be the same old stuff you hear about why MLM doesn’t work for most people and the only people making money were the people at the top of the pyramid. People with huge dowlines and people that have been in the business a long time and lists of hundreds of thousands of people to market to. For any newbie joining, good luck. I once watched a stay at home mom put $13,000 into a business to quit within a year. Most of us are smarter than that and would have quit after a few months and maybe only lost $1000 down the drain, but this person was persistent and did not want to fail. So she kept plugging away until they had no money left and when gas prices went to $3.50, the father of the family couldn’t afford to put gas in the car. So much for helping out.
The only thing we have found on the internet to work for most people is a direct sales company that pays you 100% of the sale. Companies that have a price point of less than $1000 to start. This is the only way you have a chance to succeed. Beware of the $1500 to $5000 programs, the start up company and program jumpers. The truth about start ups is that they have no track record. You have no idea if they will be in business two years later. Watch out for people who jump ship every time a new program comes out on the internet. Most importantly, be careful of the program that costs more than $1000.00. They are hard to sell, no matter how good it sounds.
I hope this helps your research in determining a company that you can be proud to represent.
Keith Vincent
http://edcgoldforever.com
http://shmyl.com/qdeoson
http://shmyl.com/jehoson
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pplprincess
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 04:42 pm |
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keefe2k28 wrote:
The only thing we have found on the internet to work for most people is a direct sales company that pays you 100% of the sale. Companies that have a price point of less than $1000 to start. This is the only way you have a chance to succeed. Beware of the $1500 to $5000 programs, the start up company and program jumpers. The truth about start ups is that they have no track record. You have no idea if they will be in business two years later. Watch out for people who jump ship every time a new program comes out on the internet. Most importantly, be careful of the program that costs more than $1000.00. They are hard to sell, no matter how good it sounds.
I hope this helps your research in determining a company that you can be proud to represent.
Keith Vincent
http://edcgoldforever.com
http://shmyl.com/qdeoson
http://shmyl.com/jehoson
I think your post would be better placed in a 'How to find the business you want, kind of post". However, I agree with most of what you said.
It amazes me that people who are looking to make extra income, or supplement their JOB with a business from home have $1500 to $5000 to start out.
I know when I got started I spent a couple hundred. Even that was a stretch for me. I borrowed money from my dad and then took of running so that I could pay him back and make a profit. I have also had a rule since I started. "Only use business money to pay for business supplies." Many people have told me that they didn't know how that would work since you need tools etc. It works though.
Thankfully, our companies comp plan is great which made it alot easier to get started and keep going.
Good advice though. You should always, investigate the company you are thinking about getting into.
Liz
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nstaley
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 09:08 pm |
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keefe2k28 wrote:
I hope this helps your research in determining a company that you can be proud to represent.
Keith Vincent
Research? I'm not searching!!!!......
Perhaps you are referring to the general reader and not us. Sound advice though.
I ditto what Liz has said, a couple of hundred is a go'er, I think anything needing more start up investment than that. One would have to sructinize thoroughly. It would be troublesome to persuade others too.
I think In the 70's when pyramid selling was rife it was commonplace for startup costs to be in that sort of realm. I think that that was one of the main reasons these schemes got bad press anyhow, the promise of riches and it being a neccessary evil to have to invest that volume of cash.
Of course there were rarely any riches to be had with these schemes, just people to be had.
Some pointers for any new venture:
a) It should have good products or services which should be real. Something people would buy and which is in demand. If nobody will buy them then the chances of the business surviving aren't good.
b) Good support from others. The opportunity should offer support from at least the sponsor. That's the idea in most residual income opportunities. A team is built and the team works together to form a strong business. If there is no support then success could be hard to find.
c) The company must have staying power. It should be built to last with a good reputation. They should be solid. If there are any signs of weakness then the business may not be a good way to build an income.
d) Getting started is hard. If the company makes getting started difficult then that could lead to problems. A hard to start or costly business could make a person give up or it could point to trouble down the road keeping the business going. If it is too hard to get started how will a person expect to succeed?
A general rule of thumb; If it sounds too good, it probably is.
Hey Liz - they took my J.O.B. pic down.... sob.. took me ages that did. good job you saved it eh. Oh the powers that be...grrr...
Last edited on Wed Aug 15th, 2007 09:09 pm by nstaley
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pplprincess
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 16th, 2007 01:19 am |
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LOL,
Yeah. I did save it one of these days I will put it on my blog. At the moment I am learning XML. (Kinda annoyed with that since I already knwo html) Why can't things stay standard.
Yes I know I know much change to progress. OMG. It's just that I have about 20 html templates already made.
Anyway like I was saying it will go somewhere on my blog one of these days.
/rant off.
Liz =)
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JFulker
Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 01:53 am |
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I say this, "we are doing pyramid marketing" but we are NOT a Pyramid Scheme. I pyramid scheme is when you recruit into a matrix that only includes money and no product. Chain letters are a big example of this. Sometimes they may have a so-called product only to make it appear legit. For example: You are sucked into an advertisement for an online opportunity. You need to pay $200 to buy a training kit. Now, you put up a website advertising this training kit and when the next person buys that from you, they pay $200, you get $25, and the rest of your upline 5 generations up get $20 to 5 levels above. And you get paid on 5 levels below you. That is a pyramid scheme and is likely to fall apart after time. There really is no product, just a make shift kit that was probably written by a two year old that makes the business appear legit.
We are marketing and building in a pyramid fashion, but it's called leverage, there is no other way to do it, and that is why regular businesses do it and why the government does it, and why even religion does it.
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PostIt
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| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 10:28 pm |
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| I was the recipient of one of these mlm marketing schemes a while ago. Actually, I think 2 friends in the past tried to recruit me for their various schemes. One of my friend's was REALLY pushy to the point of being obnoxious, he just wouldn't take no for an answer. Trying to push too hard is a good way to lose friends.
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JFulker
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 02:23 am |
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PostIt, your friends went after recruiting into their business because they were taught to do that. So many businesses teach you to sell to your friends and family and even worse, will tell you that you cannot build a business without them. That is exactly why one of your friends kept pestering you to join, because without you, he is doomed to fail as he is being taught.
My motto is to build your business without friends and family and build it through the cold market first, then when you are successful, the right people in your warm market will come to you.
I love this saying "if you don't talk to your friends and family, one day you will come to a business opportunity convention and find that one of your friends just signed up under someone else and they will be successful and you'll hate yourself." That is absolute nonsense, maybe it has happened to one or two people, but seriously, what are the chances?
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pplprincess
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 03:09 am |
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I know in my case I went and talked to my parents about it before I did anyone else. What's cool is that my dad had a legal plan but it wasn't as good as the one PPL offers so, he canceled and signed up under me. Now he and my step mom have signed up most of their church under them.
My mom, was happy for me but wasn't that supportive until I started bringing in some money. Then she signed up for the service, just in case.
As for the rest of my friends and family, I have told some of them about it in depth. For the most part though, I talk about it in passing. They know my cell number and see the money.
I want the good fish =)
Liz
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Adrianne
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 04:35 am |
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I have to agree with Di because you sure cannot argue with a fool. There really shouldn't be any arguing at all. I also agree that the best way to get your warm market's attention is to work your cold market first to build an organization. When they see or hear about you bringing in consistent income, that will speak much louder than any words ever could.
Unfortunatly, NM has gotten a bad rap due to some shady dealings of past marketers and companies. Guess what? In 2007, not much has changed. Even though there are still crooks out there who are willing to do just about anything to get their next enrollment, we cannot let that affect our biz. There are still a lot of good, honest people who are building large organizations by using good old fashioned ethics.
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CLK Group
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Posted: Sat Aug 25th, 2007 12:02 am |
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Here's a link to bookmark for future reference - you can provide it to those that are confused:
http://www.dcp.utah.gov/education/pyramid.html
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nstaley
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 12:26 am |
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Wow what a resource!
I have kept this and will definately use it in future.
Thanks. Have some mana!
Nick
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Rgrone
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 06:03 am |
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| This is a very astute observation, particularly your point about the need for a business to transmit a product thorugh their network in order to be legal. In fact there is a U.S. Court decision which makes this very distinction. In Network Marketing there are usually thre ways to produce volume in your business; personal use, retailing, and sponsorship of new members to teach them to do the same. I also wholeheartedly agree that most businesses use a similar model i.e. commissions for sales and overrides for managers to market their products or services.
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pplprincess
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 02:42 pm |
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Nice Resource.
Ironically whenever I am looking up something to do with government policies/ laws etc, a Utah.gov site always pops up with the answer I am looking for.
Why do you think that is?
Liz
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MO_Millionaire
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| Joined: | Sun Aug 26th, 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2007 04:20 am |
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| I agree, there are lots of really good ops out there and legitimate companies to help people realize their dreams. You just have to do some research and your own due dilligence to make sure they are cool. Last edited on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 04:20 am by MO_Millionaire
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davidbatchelor
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Posted: Tue Sep 4th, 2007 10:44 pm |
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I like what Di said. Another way to put it: A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.
I believe that is why it's so important to educate people first before sitting down with them to discuss your business.
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lazarus
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Posted: Thu Sep 6th, 2007 02:40 am |
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I had similar discussion with a few people, that I wasn't even exposing to my business. I agree that you shouldn't "argue with a fool"..Even if you're successful in your business, they almost make you feel guilty, since you're "one of the rare ones that it works for, but it must be at the expense of your downline"...Funny, since my downline couldn't be happier, even as just customers, since they are not forced to buy anything. They buy things regularly since they want to, the products offer value to them, regardless of the business part..
For those of my friends, who are willing to get educated (still, I'm not pushing my business on them, this was just a discussion topic) I give them a simple distinction between "an illegal pyramid" and "legal pyramid payplan". I use this wording on purpose, so that the pyramid doesn't end up being a bad word.
I say that with the "legal pyramid payplan", after the end consumer purchases the real product, that they want to buy, the company takes 50% (for example) and other 50% pays back to a few people who referred that customer, directly or indirectly. They can afford to do this, since they don't spend money on advertising, they just work with referrals.
This usually paints the picture to the "reasonable" people. To others...it's a lost cause anyways...As soemone said "you can't say a bad thing to the right person, and vice versa"
My suggestion is don't bring in friends and family in on the business deal of your company. Just mention the products to them, if it's something that they could benefit from. And after that, if they volunteer for the business part, great.
I think that the main problem with most of the legitimate MLM companies, is that their product is something that people are not buying habitually, so they look at it as an extra expense. Sure, it is a great thing, maybe a great energizing drink, or a very good multi-vitamin, but many people are not buying those as it is (or not spending as much on it). Things got much simpler for me, when I focused my effort on products that people are already buying anyways, but they get a chance to get a better price, or a better quality, or both. Then the business flows, since people are benefitting regardless of the business part.
Also, some MLM companies overprice their products, so they could afford paying big commissions to many levels up. Or worse, they impose monthly minimums on customers to buy, so people feel pressured getting into the business.
Lazarus
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