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Aaron C.
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 296 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 14th, 2006 06:11 am |
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Unfortunately I'm gonna have to disagree on this one. Firstly, even when they "scrub" against the DNC, that still leaves the responsibility of scrubbing up to you...
By Federal law, "scrubbing" is your own respondibility as a seller (refer to my earlier post). So a wrong number called accidentally would mean that you're liable for the violation fine...up to $11,000 worth of responsibility. Yikes.
And no matter what, you still need to privide a toll-free number for them to call back if you're using any prerecorded messaging device to sell something or to offer something that would cost anything to join.
So as I do wish anyone here using the service good luck on their venture, I just say to be careful and make sure you have all the i's dotted and the t's crossed to protect your business on the legal side.
Aar n
Last edited on Sat Jan 14th, 2006 03:55 pm by Aaron C.
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JohninCarmel
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| Joined: | Mon Jan 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 14th, 2006 02:15 pm |
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Ok, good points here. I do leave an 888 number, so there is a toll free call back number for them. At least there, I'm not in hot water.
I know that they do scrub out cell phones, DNC, etc. I'm sure they aren't perfect, but it would seem that reasonable means are being taken to address it. I'm not sure how I personally could do it any better. When you sign up with their program, the third party you use to actually do the dialing makes you sign a declaration stating you do not want to call DNC's, cell phones, etc.
First off, you are operating from opt-in lists. That part is supplied by Gold calling. Then from that list, you use Protus, which actually does the autodialing. Again, with Protus you sign a declaration stating whether you want to include cell phones, DNC, State DNC, Direct Marketing Do Not Calls, etc. Of course, you do NOT check these boxes, authorizing Protus to screen against these lists.
So, you started with Opt-IN's and then screened against all avaialable lists. I leave a 25 second or so message against their vm, with an 888 number. I don't really know what other precautions you can take; you are doing a lot to avoid people who aren't interested.
The commercial relationship is supplied at the opt in; then the most current screening was applied. The call will fail if it hits any kind of privacy manager, etc.
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The Good Life 4U2
Banned
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Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2006 01:09 am |
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Does anyone have an update on this...I am thinking about making the plunge next week and purchasing...
the folks that are running the campaigns...results? ... please...advise...Thanks.
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Aaron C.
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 296 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2006 03:31 am |
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No updates here, Good Life. Hopefully those using it won't end up calling the "wrong" person and get reported for calling someone on the DNC list. I'm still not willing to take that chance by using it, but for those who are, I hope it's working well for you.
Aarn
Last edited on Sat Jan 21st, 2006 02:07 pm by Aaron C.
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Aaron C.
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2006 03:39 am |
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PS: I'm still waiting to hear back from GC regarding the points and issues raised here in this thread. Haven't had any response yet though. Hopefully they can give us some more definitive information.
Aarn
Last edited on Sat Jan 21st, 2006 01:59 pm by Aaron C.
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JohninCarmel
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Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2006 11:20 am |
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Good Life,
I'm having good results with it. I'd strongly recommend you buy from someone who will help you a LOT with installing the phone and the software. Their tutorials are good, but their customer support is not impressive; at least to me.
As to the other comments regarding legality, etc, I can't continue to comment on those. I'm not having a problem, and nobody I know is having a problem. The level and scope of objections raised here are interesting, but I've got to run my business and make money, and getting into a vendors stance with the government is a little beyond the scope of what I have time for.
If you want to discuss in detail what I'm doing with GC, you can email me at JBrady@ameriplan.net or call me at 317-843-9401. I had hoped to use the thread to learn more about using GC to help me with my business, but it has not turned out that way. I may start a new thread somewhere else, but I can't devote anymore time to this one. I've made the decision to move forward with GC, and that is that.
Prosperity and health to you!
John Brady
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The Good Life 4U2
Banned
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Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2006 02:03 am |
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| thanks for the input...I will contact you by weeks end.
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ohein
Member
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Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2006 08:45 am |
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I just came across this from a very reliable source.
FYI
Telemarketing & Fax Law Fact Sheet (Sunday, March 13, 2005 - )
As a marketer it’s important to understand where you fit in with regard to the law. For example: using an autodialer to call purchased or rented leads is in most cases a violation of the Telephone Consumer Protection Act and can leave you with a $500 per call liability.
(I provided this information so that you can be informed with FACTS not hype!-KLH)
The evidence clearly shows that people hate to be called by machines and it will not do anything to build your credibility. Even used legally the restrictions make it a poor tool for marketing because it's not personal. Here's the restriction:
(A) all artificial or prerecorded telephone messages
(i) shall, at the beginning of the message, state clearly the identity of the business, individual, or other entity initiating the call, and
(ii) shall, during or after the message, state clearly the telephone number or address of such business, other entity, or individual; and
(B) any such system will automatically release the called party’s line within 5 seconds of the time notification is transmitted to the system that the called party has hung up, to allow the called party’s line to be used to make or receive other calls.
Add in the Do-Not-Call law and the requirement to send a Caller ID number across and the odds are that these services are only helping you break the law - not build your business.
I've made up my mind.
KLH
Last edited on Sat Jan 28th, 2006 08:46 am by ohein
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ohein
Member
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Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2006 04:44 pm |
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In addition to my prior post;
Did this company inform you about The Telephone Consumer Protection Act (TCPA) of 1991? It states that:
- Calls placed by autodialers may not be made to residential telephone numbers except for emergency calls needed to ensure the consumer's health and safety; calls for which you have given prior consent; non-commercial calls; calls which don't include any unsolicited advertisements; calls by or on behalf of tax-exempt non-profit organizations or calls from entities with which you have an established business relationship.
- Anyone you call can sue in small claims court under the federal Telephone Consumer Protection Act, Public Law 102-243, for actual monetary damages or $500 per violation (whichever is greater). This amount may be tripled if the recipient is able to show that the caller willfully and knowingly violated do-not-call requirements.
The TCPA is different from the Telemarketing Sales Rule of 2003. Simply deduping against the DNC list (there is only one master list yet a number of agencies that provide DNC deduping. I don't know what the benefit deduping with multiple agencies would be. The DMA keeps a do not call list of their own but it is not applicable to the law) does not negate the 1991 law.
 Yikes!
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Aaron C.
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 296 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2006 05:10 pm |
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Great info. ohein. Glad you shared it here. -Last week I had an angry gentleman send me an attacking email calling me "ignorant" and whatnot regarding my thoughts and opinions on GC that I shared here and on my blog.
He also insisted that I repost everything I said so that I showed them in a favorable light! But I was simply pointing out the legal aspects of this type of marketing... and since I can't change the laws, I change my stance either.
It's at least good to know that others are researching the laws and want to actually follow them as well.
Aarn
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ohein
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2006 08:34 pm |
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Aaron,
Any new developments with GC?
This should be a very interesting year for them.
12 DailyPro just went down in flames. FYI
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catpurley
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 28th, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 6 |
| Mana: | |
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Posted: Tue Feb 28th, 2006 09:13 pm |
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First off, GREAT TOPIC!
FYI- I have a cousin who is a lawyer that is heavily involved in Do Not Call, CAN-Spam, and other "rights to privacy" cases.
Over New Year's drinks I told him about GC and he basically said that it's just a matter of time before this company gets sued and/or some unfortunate users of the software get slammed with a suit as well.
Dangerous waters!
He actually cited some law and precedent but for the life of me I can not remember exactly (It WAS New Years LOL)
The next time I talk to him I can get the specifics of his argument. But it DID NOT sound good!
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Aaron C.
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 296 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2006 04:00 am |
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Ohein,
No clue. I haven't heard anything yet. But I'm glad catpurley posted here on the subject as well. Hopefully that'll wake some people up.
And to think how I've taken some flack from its supporters who had emailed me, whining about my opinions on the matter that I posted on my blog. It's a shame; some people just dont' learn until it's too late... like in the case of 12 Daily Pro, for example.
Man, sure wish I had a nickel for every person I warned about that one!. Rod Cook of MLMWatchdog.com had warned about it a couple of times, and it even made the TV news...
http://www.abc4.com/local_news/local_headlines/story.aspx?content_id=BC62B852-E188-4515-880A-94B2F2375B65
Aarn
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msmelanie
Member
| Joined: | Mon Sep 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 72 |
| Mana: | |
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Posted: Wed Mar 8th, 2006 01:39 pm |
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Hello Folks,
Just thought I'd contribute my own two cents-
I personally dont know how I got along before Gold Calling.
Admitedly, I have far too many programs going on at once, each of them earning me money. The problem is not the money, obviously, but the task of knowing exactly what a prospect is calling me about.
I use GC for database management and followup only. I did use it for voicebroadcasting and made a few thousand doing so- but I found that this activity kept me too busy. Again, probably sounds nuts to say it kept me too busy, but I couldnt deal with the number of calls coming in in a timely manner.
SO- Now, I just use my VOIP # in all of my corespondence and on all of my web sites. I upload my self-generated opt-ins at least twice a week so that they are 'in there'. When anyone from any of my campaigns dials that number I know who they are and what they are calling about. Soon I will not even have to upload the leads, as Arm 4 will do that automatically.
Another HUGE time saver for me is this: I generate hundreds of leads per week and find it tedious to call through each and every one. I break my list into pieces and run it through GC. This allows me to 'process' 100 leads in a few minutes, and gives me a report of what numbers had messages left, what numbers were bad, and WHO WAS HOME. I can call the people who are home. For the record, no one has ever told me that they knew my recording on their machine was 'canned'. So, in short, I can cut my prospecting time down to a third by just calling the folks who are home.
These people opted in within the last 60 days, so I'm good on that count as well.
The most important thing for me is that I will never, ever lose track of a propect. They are 'in there'. If I had this 5 years ago I'd be a multi-millionaire by now! How many thousands of people have I lost track of? what if I could follow up with every one of them with the click of a mouse? I'll tell you what- this takes relationship marketing to a whole new level.
ARM 4 will immediately call my prospects after they leave their info on my site. This takes it off the internet - adding a new dimension to my business.
I'm sure there are valid issues and reasons for concern about doing massive blasting to people who have not asked for info from you. For the record, I know that Genutec scrubs, and that Steven has hired a lawyer that specializes in the issue. I am not concerned as I know I am using the software within the law.
Last edited on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 10:06 pm by msmelanie
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Virgil
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 9th, 2006 02:32 am |
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MsMelanie,
After reading the entire thread you've made a point over and over which no one has chosen to acknowledge: you're only leaving messages.
That's an important point.
If you're only leaving messages, and if it's true as you say that no one has ever known (or mentioned anyway) that it wasn't you leaving the message individually,(thinking it was you in person), then there shouldn't be a problem.
This being IN ADDITION TO the fact that it sounds as if the company is already in compliance with the laws anyway. Some people tend to view life from a "the sky is falling" perspective. Others take reasonable risks (not gambles) - and SO IT SHALL EVER BE.
Think so?
Virgil
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plexus
Member
| Joined: | Sun Feb 12th, 2006 |
| Location: | Auburn, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 15 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 9th, 2006 05:53 am |
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This has been a great discussion and one filled with contraversy and interesting feedback.
I looked hard at Gold Calling and found the support Non Responsive....
Unfortunately it is being billed as a "biz op" with the lure of big money so to me I see this as an invitation for all sorts of problems for the software as it will be used illegally and unethically just like email was in its begining.
Sure, some will use it right and I am Sure the Owner will take care of his business and what "HE" is bound to under the laws, but as far as how this product has rolled onto the marktet, it is built as the tool to solve prospecting and it is done in the same fashion as how email started ...and then turned into a big spam tool with legislation...
IT sounds like a great way to maintain your prospects and database and could be used for other interesting uses, but for now it is the BIZ OP lure with big money that is the draw...
It will be interesting to see where this road leads...
Plex
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Aaron C.
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 29th, 2005 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 9th, 2006 06:16 am |
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Virgil wrote: MsMelanie,
After reading the entire thread you've made a point over and over which no one has chosen to acknowledge: you're only leaving messages.
That's an important point.
If you're only leaving messages, and if it's true as you say that no one has ever known (or mentioned anyway) that it wasn't you leaving the message individually,(thinking it was you in person), then there shouldn't be a problem.
Honestly, I'm surprosed anyone is still defending this. And not because I like to be a party-pooper or anything... but because it's illegal.
I'm sorry, but anyone who may have made (or is making) any kind of money/profit off of this ought to be really concerned.
And Virgil, unfortunately, that statement isn't totally accurate. Just refer to the Federal regulations governing said messages/"pre-recorded" messages, etc., that can be found on the FTC and FCC websites.
But for more specifics, here's how our good friend Tony Rush spells out the situation...
"Is Gold Calling something you should use to build your
business?
Well, here's some facts that the Gold Calling reps aren't telling
you.
First of all, autodialers are nothing new. They've been around
for years. And up until the launch of "Gold Calling", you haven't
heard much about them for several years.
Well, the reason why you haven't heard much about them lately is
because it's taken this long for most people to forget how much
negativity autodialers caused...and how many people were fined as a
result of using them.
You see, here's what you're not hearing on the Gold Calling conference
calls or on their websites.
The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 ("TCPA") 47 U.S.C. § 227
restricts the commercial use of telephones and fax machines for marketing
purposes.
According to the FCC, it is LEGAL for you to use an autodialer IF you are:
-- a tax-exempt, non-profit organization
-- a person or organization with which the receiver has an established
business relationship. An established relationship exists if that person
requested information from you, if a purchase was made or if there was
a transaction regarding your products and services.
However.....
The Telephone Consumer Protection Act PROHIBITS the use of automatic dialers
for the delivering of pre-recorded telephonic messages to homes and businesses
without the express prior consent of the called party.
Period. Read that again.
It doesn't matter if the list is "scrubbed against the DNC" list.
It doesn't matter if the list is "scrubbed for numbers in cities where
autodialers are illegal".
You CANNOT legally use an autodialer to send a pre-recorded
message to someone's home or business unless you they have given you
prior-consent that they want your message. Period.
That's a pretty big monkey wrench, huh?
Further, "most state laws that prohibit the use of ADAD's, have restrictions
that apply to commercial solicitation and specifically applies to all
commercial solicitation intended to be received by telephone customers
within the state that has the law."
In other words, MOST state laws have laws regarding the use of autodialers
to their citizens. So, even if YOUR state isn't one of them, you are
liable for damages if you use an autodialer to contact someone in a state
where autodialers are illegal.
So, what's the repercussions for the Gold Calling reps who use the system
and ignore these issues? Is it a slap on the wrist? Does the FCC
make you stand in a corner or write "I will not use autodialers" 100 times?
No but you'll wish they did. The TCP Act calls for a fine of $11,000 for
a single violation of any of the provisions developed by the FTC.
Get that. You can be fined a MINIMUM of $11,000 if you use the Gold Calling
system to call someone who hasn't ASKED for your marketing message (which
is basically EVERYONE who's unfortunate on that list.)
And don't take my word for it. Go look up the Telephone Consumer Protection
Act like I did and get the facts for yourself. Because you can bet that
it's just a matter of time before Gold Calling reps start getting fined
for illegal autodialing.
$11,000 fine? wow. That's some pretty expensive leads."
Aarn
Last edited on Thu Mar 9th, 2006 01:42 pm by Aaron C.
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msmelanie
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 9th, 2006 11:03 am |
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Did you read my post? I am completely within the law to use my system in the the way that I do. In fact, my post was meant to outline how to use the system completely LEGALLY.
I do not just use it as an autodialer, if thats all I needed I could use any service such as voiceshot for a one off use. You dont need software to use an autodialer- you can do that anywhere.
Goodness folks, years back with ProStep they had this feature too. No one was up in arms about the legality of that. It was far more expensive for the dials- you paid whether your message was left or not.
I thought these boards were for putting information out there. I do believe that plenty of professional networkers are using or are considering using the software and I'm doing them a service by letting them know how I am using the software to increase my profits. Time is money. GC saves me time- and helps me to keep the chaos level way down. No more notebooks filled with names with stars and underlines and such- with the hopes that I wont lose track of folks. They are 'in there'.
http://www.SponsoringSuccess.com - to purchase your software.
Last edited on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 10:05 pm by msmelanie
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freedom4u2
Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 04:38 am |
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TonyRush3 wrote: John, my understanding is that the 25k leads are just names and phone numbers. They aren't categorized as having responded to ANY kind of offer (business or otherwise). Which makes sense considering that GC is marketing their product as a way to pitch ANY product or service (lawyers, software, cell phones, etc.)
If that's true, the leads are just names and numbers. No different than calling from a phone book. So, your response rate for a home business won't be as good as a list of people who have actually requested information on making money at home.
Keep us posted!
Tony
this Gold Calling is new to me- this is the first I've heard of it. I know that I dislike ( to put it mildly) getting recorded pitches left on my phone voice mail. Also , if the leads haven't responded to any kind of offer for information, isn't this Gold calling just basically spamming via phone instead of computer?
William
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ibuzzmentor
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 09:53 pm |
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Voice blasting and the system I use is so much better than the gold calling one. I recommend two things, buying your own lists and blasting them ( of course still scrub vs the dnc list) Secondly call business leads. Get a list of realtors or mortage brokers. You dont need to worry about B to B calls. Nowadasy voiceblasting is so dirt cheap it is amazing how high my ROI has gone up. I think every sales pro needs this tool in his arsenal.
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